Вы увидели сериал «Чужестранка» и решили почитать книги Дианы Гэблдон, на основе которых и основан сюжет? Но, полазив по просторам интернета, поняли, что изданий много, и у вас возник резонный вопрос: а какое же издание читать? Конечно же, многие из вас решат, а что тут думать? Издаются же сейчас издательством ЭКСМО все эти книги. Но верен ли будет ваш выбор? Пообсуждаем?
Дата: Пятница, 24.09.2021, 10:02 | Сообщение # 102
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Я спросила у дам любителей книг Дианы на заграничном сайте сколько было вариантов текста издано? Мне ответили: The original version of Outlander that was released in the UK (entitled Cross Stitch) left out one of the more risqué sex scenes (the Waterweed scene) that was included in the US version: Outlander. There were other small changes as well. (changing dates, name spellings).In general, the text doesn't change in reprints. That is why they are called " reprints" as opposed to "revised editions." В оригинальной версии Outlander, выпущенной в Великобритании (получившей название Cross Stitch), не учитывалась одна из наиболее рискованных сексуальных сцен (сцена Waterweed), которая была включена в версию для США: Outlander. Были и другие небольшие изменения. (изменение дат, написания имен). В оттисках в целом текст не меняется. Вот почему их называют «оттисками», а не «исправленными изданиями». _____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Суббота, 16.10.2021, 14:46 | Сообщение # 112
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Короче купила я новое издание чужестранки, от эксмо, что сказать, книга больше по размеру , бумага белая , лучше чем в прошлом издании, Клэр в тексте названа сассенах, нет гэльского, сноски на исторических деятелей, 41 глава, текст чуть помельче чем в прошлом издании, качество полиграфии лучше, но по тексту возможно нет изменений...но лучше 1 том чем 2 книги
_____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Пятница, 12.11.2021, 22:29 | Сообщение # 113
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Я тоже раздумываю, купить ли эту книгу, а то моя старая, да и понравилось оформление. Начала сравнивать текст и уже на 2 наверное странице обнаружила, что не хватает совсем немного текста в одном предложении. Интересно, как дальше. А кто тут переводчик?
Увидела новый перевод и обрадовалась, а вдруг…? И лишний раз убедилась: если есть возможность – лучше читать в оригинале. По мне так новый перевод делался не с оригинала, а просто перерабатывался старый. Как иначе объяснить те косяки, что кочуют из перевода в перевод?
Переводчики – Антонина Черташ, Валерия Зайцева: – Белтейн как раз подходит, его отмечают незадолго до весеннего равноденствия.
Весеннее равноденствие – 21 марта, Белтейн – 1 мая. Который никак не может быть «НЕЗАДОЛГО ДО» весеннего равноденствия))
=== Переводчики – Антонина Черташ, Валерия Зайцева: Я не знала, где я, кто мои спутники, почему мыуезжаем в такой спешке и куда держим путь, – не было ни одной причины, почему бы я хотела ехать с ними.
Оригинал: I didn’t know where I was, who mycompanions were, why we were leaving with such urgency, or where we were going, but I lacked any reasonable alternatives to going with them. Т.е. выбора у нее не было))) Либо ехать, либо все-таки ехать… несмотря на все вышеперечисленное.
Я не знала, где нахожусь, кто мои спутники, почему мы так поспешно уезжаем и куда направляемся, но у меня не было разумных вариантов,кроме как ехать с ними.
=== Переводчики – Антонина Черташ, Валерия Зайцева: Миссис Фицгиббонс сменила домотканое платье, в котором была накануне, на зеленое полосатое одеяние с шелковым корсажем; чулки на ней были желтые фильдекосовые.
Оригинал: Mrs. FitzGibbons also had astriped green overskirt and bodice of silk, with yellow lisle stockings, as a change from the homespun I had been provided with the day before. «I had been provided», т.е. дословно «было мне предоставлено». Так почему все это оказалось на мистрис Фиц? Которая принесла кучу архаичной косметики, но решила, что платье Клэр сменить не нужно. Лучше уж самой переодеться))
Мистрис Фицгиббонс также принесла зеленую полосатую верхнюю юбку и шелковый корсаж с желтыми фильдекосовыми чулками, в качестве замены домотканой материи, что была на мне накануне.
=== Переводчики – Антонина Черташ, Валерия Зайцева: С поля, где проходили игры, неслись крики, смех и музыка. Отлично. Новых пациентов нет, и надо надеяться, не будет до завтра.
Оригинал: The shouts and laughter and music fromthe field where the games were held had ceased. Good. No more newpatients, then, at least not until tomorrow. Тут без комментариев. Просто неверный перевод, и логика потеряна…
Крики, смех и музыка с поля, где проходили игры, затихли. Чудесно. Значит, никаких новых пациентов, по крайней мере,до завтра.
=== Эти же цитаты из переводов И. Лебедевой и Чужеземца (так и не нашла автора перевода) приводить не буду, но косяки там те же. И такого можно насобирать очень много. Грустно…
Так что развлекаюсь тем, что перевожу для себя первую книгу. === Don't shoot the pianist, he's doing his best
Сообщение отредактировалаwhite_soft - Среда, 05.01.2022, 20:01
white_soft, я ваш сотоварищ по чтению оригинала, только сейчас я перешла на перевод 9 книги, хотя можно почитать девочек с контакта, я даже составила таблицу переводов 1 книги по предложениям, там ярко видны что где упущено и отсебятина, только процесс очень медленный так как я ещё изучающих английский язык... _____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 13:35 | Сообщение # 116
Виконт
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К вопросу
Цитататеорема ()
сколько было вариантов текста издано?
Случайно обнаружилось....
Оригинал: Apparently taking this as a plea for support, he took the hand and tucked it firmly into the crook of his elbow. Thus inescapably pinioned, I squelched up the path to my wedding. ??? Rupert and Murtagh were waiting for us in the chapel, keeping guard over a captive cleric, a spindly young priest with a red nose and a justifiably terrified expression.
Перевод И. Ростоцкой Очевидно, приняв это за мольбу о помощи, Джейми взял мою руку и решительно просунул ее в кольцо своей. Пришпиленная к нему таким образом, я зашлепала по грязной дорожке к своему неизбежному венчанию. В прошлый раз — в будущий раз? — я выходила замуж в белом льняном костюме и лодочках из крокодиловой кожи. Фрэнк надел поношенный серый твидовый костюм. Я поймала себя на том, что исступленно думаю о дяде Лэмбе, который был свидетелем на том венчании. — Какая жалость портить такое окружение всей этой современной ерундой, — сказал он, небрежно похлопав Фрэнка по твидовому рукаву. — Это, знаете ли, настоящая шотландская часовня восемнадцатого века. Нужно было одеться подобающим образом — в килты, в длинное платье, взять кинжалы и все такое. Посмотрев на своего великолепного жениха, я в смятении представила себе одобрительно кивающего дядю Лэмба. «Намного лучше,— произнес он в моем воображении. – То, что надо». Руперт и Муртаг ждали нас в церкви, приглядывая за плененным клириком — веретенообразным молодым священником с красным носом и оправданно перепуганным выражением лица.
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 14:21 | Сообщение # 117
Король
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Цитатаwhite_soft ()
Случайно обнаружилось....
Получается, что в оригинале всего того, что выделено жирным шрифтом, не было? Переводчик И. Ростоцкая сама это придумала? А жаль, хороший отрывочек, особенно про великолепного жениха))) и очень похоже на слог Дианы.
Сообщение отредактировалаgal_tsy - Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 14:26
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 14:28 | Сообщение # 118
Виконт
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Либо переводчик придумала. Либо все-таки был еще один вариант оригинала, который найти в сети мне так и не удалось... Либо это кусок из какой-то другой главы, хотя я такого не припоминаю. В этом издании вообще полная путаница с главами: куски переставлены местами, в одной главе части другой... Жесть! === Don't shoot the pianist, he's doing his best
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 19:51 | Сообщение # 119
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white_soft, попыталась спросить у западных фанатов на заблокированном сайте, может ответит кто про первые издания, придумала Ростоцкая или все таки что то было в книге _____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 22:18 | Сообщение # 120
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white_soft, что интересно, мне ответили что текст одинаковый в изданиях, те у кого древняя книга совпадает с остальными.... _____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 23:18 | Сообщение # 123
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Вот значит как обстоят дела с изданиями: - "ЧУЖЕСТРАНЕЦ" первоначально был опубликован в Великобритании, Австралии и Новой Зеландии под названием CROSS STITCH. Почему? вот что говорит Диана: "Вышивка крестом была моим оригинальным названием (это была пьеса о “стежке во времени”), и британцам это понравилось. Американцы сказали: “Это слишком похоже на вышивку, не могли бы вы придумать что—нибудь более... авантюрное?” Так что я сделал - ЧУЖЕСТРАНЕЦ (я думал назвать его “Сассенах”, но они сказали: “Нет. Никто не может произнести это, и так как они тоже не могут произнести ваше имя...). Кроме того, когда я писала это, я имел в виду, что это была одна книга – и знала о ней достаточно, чтобы быть уверенным, что Клэр “перекрестится” не один раз, а дважды – из будущего в прошлое, из прошлого в будущее – что сделает крестик, который является основной вышивкой крестиком. Это также имело отношение к профессии Клэр – целительницы. Но на самом деле народ нашел расхождения с текстом в outlander в cross stitch Большинство различий очень незначительны, некоторые из них просто сбивают с толку, а некоторые могут вас удивить!
ГЛАВА 4
Сцена, где Клэр впервые видит шрамы Джейми, отсутствует примерно на странице ВЫШИВКИ КРЕСТОМ:
"Lobsterbacks. For escape and theft." I didn't know what to say to this, so said the first thing that came to mind. "What were you escaping from?" (CROSS STITCH mass market paperback, p. 95) ------------------------------ "Lobsterbacks. Flogged me twice, in the space of a week. They'd ha' done it twice the same day, I expect, were they not afraid of killing me. No joy in flogging a dead man." I tried to keep my voice steady while I sponged. "I shouldn't think anyone would do such a thing for joy." "No? You should ha' seen him." "Who?" "The redcoat captain that skinned my back for me. If he was not precisely joyous, he was at least verra pleased with himself. More nor I was," he added wryly. "Randall was the name." "Randall!" I couldn't keep the shock from my voice. Cold blue eyes fixed on mine. "You're familiar with the man?" The voice was suddenly suspicious. "No, no! I used to know a family of that name, a long time, oh, a long time ago." In my nervousness, I dropped the sponge cloth. "Drat, now that will have to be boiled again." I scooped it off the floor and bustled to the fireplace, trying to hide my confusion in busyness. Could this Captain Randall possibly be Frank's ancestor, the soldier with the sterling record, gallant on the field of battle, recipient of commendations from dukes? And if so, could someone related to my sweet gentle Frank possibly be capable of inflicting the horrifying marks on this lad's back? I busied myself at the fire, dropping in a few more handfuls of witch hazel and garlic, setting more cloths to soak. When I thought I could control my voice and face, I came back to Jamie, sponge in hand. "Why were you flogged?" I asked abruptly. It was hardly tactful, but I badly wanted to know, and was too tired to phrase it more gently. He sighed, moving his shoulder uneasily under my ministrations. He was tired, too, and I was undoubtedly hurting him, gentle as I tried to be. "The first time was escape, and the second was theft--or at least that's what the charge sheet read." "What were you escaping from?" (OUTLANDER, pp. 60-61 hardcover ed.)
Я думаю, что измененная сцена выглядит гораздо менее ужасной, чем оригинал.
ГЛАВА 9
В сцене, где Клэр встречает Джилли, она собирает древесный щавель вместо грибов аскарии с алыми шляпками в "ЧУЖЕСТРАНКЕ": "Those kind are poison," said a voice from behind me." (OUTLANDER, p. 117 hardcover ed.) "Those are good for helping the monthlies," said a voice from behind me." (CROSS STITCH mass market paperback, p. 171) Мне совсем не нравится это изменение, потому что оно, кажется, делает Клэр менее... экзотичной? опасный? В "ЧУЖЕСТРАНКЕ" Клэр собирает ядовитые грибы. Нарочно (!) И она объясняет Гейли, что именно она намерена с ними делать. В ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ Клэр просто собирает лекарственные травы, что было бы совсем не необычно для того времени. В оригинале эта маленькая сцена выглядит по-другому, по крайней мере для меня.
ГЛАВА 14
В сцене непосредственно перед свадьбой, когда Клэр идет с остальными к часовне, где они с Джейми поженятся, у нее возникает воспоминание о ее свадьбе с Фрэнком, которого определенно нет в моем "ЧУЖЕСТРАНЦЕ" в твердом переплете: Thus inescapably pinioned, I squelched up the path to my wedding.Last time -- next time? -- I had been married in a white linen suit with alligator pumps. Frank had worn grey Harris tweed. I caught myself thinking wildly of Uncle Lamb, who had witnessed the wedding. 'Pity to waste the surroundings with this modern stuff,' he had said, casually patting Frank's tweed sleeve. 'It's a genuine eighteenth-century Scottish chapel, you know. You ought to have got yourselves up appropriately, kilts and dirks and long gowns and such.' Looking up at the formidable sight of my intended bridegroom, I had a sudden unhinged vision of Uncle Lamb nodding approvingly. 'Much better,' he said, in my imagination. 'Just the thing.'Rupert and Murtagh were waiting for us in the chapel.... (CROSS STITCH mass market paperback, pp. 273-274)
Часть, выделенная красным цветом выше, совершенно нова для меня. И интересно, потому что я вижу здесь отголоски будущих событий в сериале. Дядя Лэмб присутствовал "в духе" на свадьбе Клэр с Джейми, точно так же, как Фрэнк присутствовал в духе на свадьбе Бри в ОГНЕННОМ КРЕСТЕ. И фотография Клэр, стоящей между Джейми и Лаогэром на их свадьбе. Я думаю, что это приятный штрих, когда Клэр думает здесь о дяде Лэмбе.
ГЛАВА 18
Вот фрагмент из главы 18 ("Рейдеры в скалах"), который был вырезан из ВЫШИВКИ КРЕСТОМ: "Fun, I said, a little faintly. "Yes, quite."His arms tightened around me, and one of the stroking hands dipped lower, beginning to inch my skirt upward. Clearly the thrill of the fight was being transmuted into a different kind of excitement. "Jamie! Not here!" I said, squirming away and pushing my skirt down again. "Are ye tired, Sassenach?" he asked with concern. "Dinna worry, I won't take long." Now both hands were at it, rucking the heavy fabric up in front. "No!" I replied, all too mindful of the twenty men lying a few feet away. "I'm not tired, it's just--" I gasped as his groping hand found its way between my legs. "Lord," he said softly. "It's slippery as waterweed." "Jamie! There are twenty men sleeping right next to us!" I shouted in a whisper. "They wilna be sleeping long, if you keep talking." He rolled on top of me, pinning me to the rock. His knee wedged between my thighs and began to work gently back and forth. Despite myself, my legs were beginning to loosen. Twenty-seven years of propriety were no match for several hundred thousand years of instinct. While my mind might object to being taken on a bare rock next to several sleeping soldiers, my body plainly considered itself the spoils of war and was eager to complete the formalities of surrender. He kissed me, long and deep, his tongue sweet and restless in my mouth. [etc.... ] I was mildly shocked to realize that I was not even embarrassed. I wondered rather dimly whether I would be in the morning, and then wondered no more.
[break]In the morning, everyone behaved as usual....(OUTLANDER pp. 250-251 hardcover ed.)
Часть в красном - это все, что осталось в ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ. Действительно жаль, что эта сцена была вырезана! ГЛАВА 20
Другим важным отличием, по-видимому, является попытка исправить (?) географические ссылки в главе 20 ("Пустынные поляны"). So that was east. My heart began to beat faster. East was over there, Lag Cruime was directly behind me. Lag Cruime was four miles to the north of Fort William. And Fort William was no more than three miles due west of the hill of Craigh na Dun. So, for the first time since my meeting with Murtagh, I knew approximately where I was--no more than seven miles from that bloody hill and its accursed stone circle. Seven miles--perhaps--from home. From Frank. I started back into the copse, but changed my mind." (OUTLANDER p. 268 hardcover ed.) ---------------------- So that was east. My heart began to beat faster. If we were as close as I thought to Fort William, then if I followed this small stream, I would eventually reach the Great Glen. And the Great Glen, whatever dangers it held in terms of wild beasts, outlaws and potential starvation, also provided a direct connection between Fort William and Inverness. And near Inverness was the hill I had dreamed of for weeks -- Craigh na Dun. I clenched my fists, feeling the nails dig into my palms. It was the hell of a risk. It could take weeks to make that journey on foot. And I had no shelter other than the cloak I wore, and no food whatever. I would have to depend on what I could find, steal or beg. And run the risks attendant on stealing or begging; any cottars in the Glen were unlikely to receive me with less caution than had Callum MacKenzie. I started back into the copse, but changed my mind."(CROSS STITCH mass market paperback, p. 374)
Я могу понять, что детали изменяются, чтобы сделать расстояния и местоположения более реалистичными для читателей, знакомых с Шотландией (и я очень мало знаю о географии Шотландии, поэтому я не могу это комментировать ), но я думаю, что идея о том, что Клэр отправится пешком, без еды или воды, без крова, без НИЧЕГО, для путешествия, которое может занять недели, нелепа. В ЧУЖЕСТРАНКЕ это имеет смысл, потому что она находится всего в нескольких минутах ходьбы от Крейг-на-Дуна, и поэтому еда, вода и кров не будут иметь значения. В ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ ситуация, описанная выше, заставляет ее выглядеть безрассудной дурой, ИМХО, которой, как мы знаем, она не является.
ГЛАВА 22
В истории, которую Джейми рассказывает об инциденте, когда он был избит Ангусом в зале Колума в возрасте 16 лет, ссылка на миссис Фитц полностью исчезла со сцены в ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ, и в описании Джейми того, что произошло, отсутствуют многие детали: "So one day I went too far. Said the wrong thing to the wrong person and came up for judgement before Callum at Hall." He chuckled to himself. [description of Angus beating him] [описание избиения Ангуса]
He shuddered reminiscently.Он вздрогнул, вспоминая. [следующий абзац идентичен в обеих версиях] "Then I was plunked down on a stool next to Callum, and bid to sit there till Hall was ended." (CROSS STITCH mass market paperback, pp. 414-15) ------------------------- "So one day I went too far. I was with a couple of the other lads, going down a corridor when I saw Mistress FitzGibbons at the other end....[then the bit about what Jamie said about her] I didn't know she'd heard, until she got up at the Hall gathering next day and told Colum all about it." "Oh, dear." I knew how highly Colum regarded Mrs. Fitz, and didn't think he would take any irreverence directed at her lightly. "What happened?" "The same thing that happened to Laoghaire--or almost." He chuckled. [description of Angus beating him] He shuddered reminiscently. "I had the marks for a week." [next paragraph is identical in both versions] "Well, I wasna allowed just to go quietly away and tend to my wounds, either. When Angus finished wi' me, Dougal took me by the scruff of the neck and marched me to the far end of the Hall. Then I was made to come all the way back on my knees, across the stones. I had to beg Mrs. Fitz's pardon, then Colum's, then apologize to everyone in the Hall for my rudeness, and finally, I'd to thank Angus for the strapping. I nearly choked over that, but he was verra gracious about it; he reached down and gave me a hand to get up. Then I was plunked down on a stool next to Colum, and bid to sit there till Hall was ended."(OUTLANDER p. 296-97 hardcover ed.) Again, this seems to be a scene that got toned down for the UK market. Very strange.Опять же, похоже, что эта сцена была смягчена для рынка Великобритании. Очень странно
_____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 23:26 | Сообщение # 124
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CHAPTER 23
Here is a bit that Diana has specifically mentioned as being altered without her knowledge in CROSS STITCH:Вот фрагмент, который Диана специально упомянула как измененный без ее ведома в ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ: CHAPTER 23
'You look like a fretful porpentine,' I said.'Whatever that might be,' He gave me a dirty look and rose to his feet, replacing the dirk on the stool that held his clothes. 'You couldna wait till I woke to tell me that?' he inquired. 'You thought it would make more impression if ye woke me out of a sound sleep by shouting in my ear?''Horrocks', I explained.(CS p. 426)
----------------------- "You look like a fretful porpentine," I said.He gave me a dirty look and rose to his feet, replacing the dirk on the stool that held his clothes. "You couldna wait till I woke to tell me that?" he inquired. "You thought it would make more impression if ye woke me out of a sound sleep by shouting "Hedgehog!" in my ear?""Not 'hedgehog' ", I explained. "Horrocks."(OUTLANDER p. 306)Whatever that might be?? Jamie's a university-educated man, fluent in Latin, Greek, and any number of other languages; surely he'd be familiar with Shakespeare? (More familiar than the UK editor who added that line, evidently!) The way it's written in CS, Jamie reacts as though Claire had said, "You look like you've just stuck your finger in an electrical outlet", or some other 20th-century reference that would leave him understandably baffled. And the removal of the "hedgehog" bit just makes Claire's mention of Horrocks sound like a complete non sequitur. Что бы это ни было?? Джейми - человек с университетским образованием, свободно владеющий латынью, греческим и многими другими языками; наверняка он был бы знаком с Шекспиром? (Очевидно, более знакомый, чем редактор из Великобритании, который добавил эту строку!) Судя по тому, как это написано в CS, Джейми реагирует так, как если бы Клэр сказала: "Ты выглядишь так, будто только что сунула палец в электрическую розетку", или какую-то другую ссылку 20-го века, которая, по понятным причинам, поставила бы его в тупик. И удаление части "ежа" просто заставляет упоминание Клэр о Хорроксе звучать как полное непоследование.
CHAPTER 24"I floated gently to the surface of reality, and found that the butterfly feet against my stomach were the flaming tendrils of Jamie's soft red thatch, and the butterfly trapped between my thighs was his tongue." (OUTLANDER, p. 336)" ------------------------ I floated gently to the surface of reality, and found that the butterfly feet on my shoulder were the flaming tendrils of Jamie's soft red thatch, and the butterfly wings on my skin were his fingers." (CS p. 467)I suppose this is the scene Diana has talked about where they asked her to rewrite it "so that it looks like they're having normal sex"?Я полагаю, это та сцена, о которой говорила Диана, когда они попросили ее переписать ее "так, чтобы это выглядело так, как будто они занимаются нормальным сексом"?"Young Jocasta, only fifteen, had obligingly accepted the suit of John Cameron, and gone north." (OUTLANDER p. 346)"Young Jocasta, only fifteen, had obligingly accepted the suit of John Munro, and gone north." (CS p. 479)Munro?! Um, no. I would imagine this is pretty confusing for readers who've only seen CROSS STITCH, in light of what we learn about Jocasta in future books.Манро?! Гм, нет. Я бы предположил, что это довольно сбивает с толку читателей, которые видели только ВЫШИВКУ КРЕСТОМ, в свете того, что мы узнаем о Иокасте в будущих книгах."There was the great to-do about it all, and a lot of verra nasty letters exchanged between Leoch and Beauly, but they settled it in the end, and Ellen and Brian took up house at Lallybroch the week before the child was born." (OUTLANDER p. 349)"There was the great to-do about it all, and a lot of verra nasty letters exchanged between Leoch and Lallybroch, but they settled it in the end, and Ellen and Brian took up house at Lallybroch the week before the child was born." (CS p. 483)Granted, it's not until DRAGONFLY that we learn the significance of Beauly (where Lord Lovat lives), but still, it's very clear to me that Diana meant Beauly (whether it would mean anything to the readers or not, at that stage), because at least some of the letters in question would presumably have been exchanged between Brian's father, Lord Lovat, and Colum MacKenzie. Referring to Lallybroch in this context makes no sense. As I told Diana on Compuserve, I don't mean to nitpick. But CROSS STITCH is starting to drive me just a bit nuts, with all the details that have been changed for no apparent reason.Конечно, только в DRAGONFLY мы узнаем значение Beauly (где живет лорд Ловат), но, тем не менее, мне совершенно ясно, что Диана имела в виду Beauly (будет ли это что-то значить для читателей или нет, на этом этапе), потому что, по крайней мере, некоторые из писем, о которых идет речь, предположительно, были обменены между отцом Брайана, лордом Ловатом, и Колумом Маккензи. Ссылка на Лаллиброха в этом контексте не имеет смысла.
Как я уже сказал Диане в Compuserve, я не хочу придираться. Но ВЫШИВКА КРЕСТОМ начинает немного сводить меня с ума, со всеми деталями, которые были изменены без видимой причины.CHAPTER 25Claire's thoughts in the thieves' hole:Мысли Клэр в воровской норе:"And given Callum's fear that I might reveal Hamish's parentage, or what he thought I knew of it, what he had done to me -- his not lifting a finger to help me -- was understandable too. Understandable, but not forgivable." (CS p. 552)The part in red in that first sentence is not in my OUTLANDER hardcover.Части, выделенной красным в этом первом предложении, нет в моем "ЧУЖЕСТРАНЦЕ" в твердом переплете."there were no enormous stretches of concrete blanketing the countryside, nor any noisy, stinking autos...." (OUTLANDER p. 412)"there were no enormous stretches of road blanketing the countryside, nor any noisy, stinking cars...." (CS p. 570)The little house near Craigh na Dun is referred to as a "cottage" in OUTLANDER, but a "cot-house" in CROSS STITCH. When I mentioned this on Compuserve, Diana said she'd never encountered the term "cot-house", either in British novels or in her research.
Маленький домик близ Крейг-на-Дун в "ЧУЖЕСТРАНКЕ" называется "коттеджем", а в "ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ" - "домиком-кроваткой". Когда я упомянул об этом в Compuserve, Диана сказала, что никогда не встречала термин "койка-хаус" ни в британских романах, ни в своих исследованиях.
CHAPTER 26
From the scene where Jenny has just grabbed Jamie by the balls:Из сцены, где Дженни только что схватила Джейми за яйца:"I'll wring your wee neck, Janet!" (OUTLANDER p. 425)"I'll wring your wee neck, Jenny!" (CS p. 588)Gotta say, I like "Janet" better in this context! "Frasers dinna listen to anything when they've their danders up. I've been acquent' wi' those two all my life, and I know. When they've shouted themselves out, sometimes ye can make them see reason, but not 'til then." (CS p. 592)The part in red above is not in my OUTLANDER hardcover. Часть, выделенная красным цветом выше, отсутствует в моем "ЧУЖЕСТРАНЦЕ" в твердом переплете.
CHAPTER 27"I'm none too worried, man. There's no coach going before next April, and I reckon she'll be used to us by that time. Get on wi' ye; Jamie's waiting." (OUTLANDER p. 435) The sentence in blue has been cut from CROSS STITCH. Too bad. I like that line. Jamie's brother's name is spelled "Willy" in CS, not "Willie" as in OUTLANDER.Предложение, написанное синим цветом, было вырезано из ВЫШИВКИ КРЕСТОМ. Слишком плохой. Мне нравится эта фраза. Имя брата Джейми пишется "Вилли" в CS, а не "Вилли", как в OUTLANDER.Staring absently out at the driving rain, he said, "There was another reason. The main one." (OUTLANDER p. 438) Staring absently out at the rain, he abruptly said, "I told you once I'd tell you the other reason. Do ye want to know?" (CS p. 607)I really don't understand this. Why tinker with a sentence like that, that was perfectly good and understandable in the original version?
CHAPTER 28
Ian's line about swimming has changed in CROSS STITCH:Строчка Йена о плавании изменилась в ВЫШИВКЕ КРЕСТОМ:"I just thrash about, and gang in circles like a doodle-bug." (OUTLANDER p. 442)"I just thrash about, and gang in circles like a spider wi' four legs." (CS p. 612)The scene where Claire meets Grannie MacNab is quite different:"Mallow root--ah, that's good for cough. But ye dinna want to use that one, lassie." She poked at a small brownish tuber. "Looks like lily root, but it isna that." "What is it?" I asked. "Adder's-tongue. Eat that one, lassie, and ye'll be rollin' round the room wi' your heels behind yer head." She plucked the tuber from the basket and threw it into the pond with a splash. She pulled the basket onto her lap....[next bit is identical in both versions] "Ye ken betony from lamb's-quarters, at least."(OUTLANDER p. 447)
---------------------- "Coltsfoot root--ah, that's good for cough." She pulled the basket onto her lap....[next bit is identical in both versions] "Ye ken caraway from cowbane, at least."(CS p. 618)All the references to Jamie as "his lordship" (a perfectly proper and respectable way to speak of the laird, isn't it?) in this scene have been replaced by "Lallybroch": "I see Lallybroch didna wed ye for your face alone." (CS p. 618)"I see his lordship didna wed ye for your face alone." (OUTLANDER p. 448)And then Grannie MacNab says this to Claire:"you'll be swellin' like a pumpkin by Easter" (OUTLANDER p. 449)"you'll be swellin' like a ewe wi' triplets by Easter" (CS p. 620)I guess you could argue that pumpkins are too obviously North American in origin for someone like Grannie MacNab to be familiar with them? 'You look like a fretful porpentine,' I said.'Whatever that might be,' He gave me a dirty look and rose to his feet, replacing the dirk on the stool that held his clothes. 'You couldna wait till I woke to tell me that?' he inquired. 'You thought it would make more impression if ye woke me out of a sound sleep by shouting in my ear?''Horrocks', I explained.(CS p. 426)
----------------------- "You look like a fretful porpentine," I said.He gave me a dirty look and rose to his feet, replacing the dirk on the stool that held his clothes. "You couldna wait till I woke to tell me that?" he inquired. "You thought it would make more impression if ye woke me out of a sound sleep by shouting "Hedgehog!" in my ear?""Not 'hedgehog' ", I explained. "Horrocks."(OUTLANDER p. 306)Whatever that might be?? Jamie's a university-educated man, fluent in Latin, Greek, and any number of other languages; surely he'd be familiar with Shakespeare? (More familiar than the UK editor who added that line, evidently!) The way it's written in CS, Jamie reacts as though Claire had said, "You look like you've just stuck your finger in an electrical outlet", or some other 20th-century reference that would leave him understandably baffled. And the removal of the "hedgehog" bit just makes Claire's mention of Horrocks sound like a complete non sequitur.
CHAPTER 24"I floated gently to the surface of reality, and found that the butterfly feet against my stomach were the flaming tendrils of Jamie's soft red thatch, and the butterfly trapped between my thighs was his tongue." (OUTLANDER, p. 336)" ------------------------ I floated gently to the surface of reality, and found that the butterfly feet on my shoulder were the flaming tendrils of Jamie's soft red thatch, and the butterfly wings on my skin were his fingers." (CS p. 467)I suppose this is the scene Diana has talked about where they asked her to rewrite it "so that it looks like they're having normal sex"? "Young Jocasta, only fifteen, had obligingly accepted the suit of John Cameron, and gone north." (OUTLANDER p. 346)"Young Jocasta, only fifteen, had obligingly accepted the suit of John Munro, and gone north." (CS p. 479)Munro?! Um, no. I would imagine this is pretty confusing for readers who've only seen CROSS STITCH, in light of what we learn about Jocasta in future books."There was the great to-do about it all, and a lot of verra nasty letters exchanged between Leoch and Beauly, but they settled it in the end, and Ellen and Brian took up house at Lallybroch the week before the child was born." (OUTLANDER p. 349)"There was the great to-do about it all, and a lot of verra nasty letters exchanged between Leoch and Lallybroch, but they settled it in the end, and Ellen and Brian took up house at Lallybroch the week before the child was born." (CS p. 483)Granted, it's not until DRAGONFLY that we learn the significance of Beauly (where Lord Lovat lives), but still, it's very clear to me that Diana meant Beauly (whether it would mean anything to the readers or not, at that stage), because at least some of the letters in question would presumably have been exchanged between Brian's father, Lord Lovat, and Colum MacKenzie. Referring to Lallybroch in this context makes no sense. As I told Diana on Compuserve, I don't mean to nitpick. But CROSS STITCH is starting to drive me just a bit nuts, with all the details that have been changed for no apparent reason.CHAPTER 25Claire's thoughts in the thieves' hole:"And given Callum's fear that I might reveal Hamish's parentage, or what he thought I knew of it, what he had done to me -- his not lifting a finger to help me -- was understandable too. Understandable, but not forgivable." (CS p. 552)The part in red in that first sentence is not in my OUTLANDER hardcover."there were no enormous stretches of concrete blanketing the countryside, nor any noisy, stinking autos...." (OUTLANDER p. 412)"there were no enormous stretches of road blanketing the countryside, nor any noisy, stinking cars...." (CS p. 570)The little house near Craigh na Dun is referred to as a "cottage" in OUTLANDER, but a "cot-house" in CROSS STITCH. When I mentioned this on Compuserve, Diana said she'd never encountered the term "cot-house", either in British novels or in her research.
CHAPTER 26
From the scene where Jenny has just grabbed Jamie by the balls:"I'll wring your wee neck, Janet!" (OUTLANDER p. 425)"I'll wring your wee neck, Jenny!" (CS p. 588)Gotta say, I like "Janet" better in this context! "Frasers dinna listen to anything when they've their danders up. I've been acquent' wi' those two all my life, and I know. When they've shouted themselves out, sometimes ye can make them see reason, but not 'til then." (CS p. 592)The part in red above is not in my OUTLANDER hardcover.
CHAPTER 27"I'm none too worried, man. There's no coach going before next April, and I reckon she'll be used to us by that time. Get on wi' ye; Jamie's waiting." (OUTLANDER p. 435) The sentence in blue has been cut from CROSS STITCH. Too bad. I like that line. Jamie's brother's name is spelled "Willy" in CS, not "Willie" as in OUTLANDER. Staring absently out at the driving rain, he said, "There was another reason. The main one." (OUTLANDER p. 438) Staring absently out at the rain, he abruptly said, "I told you once I'd tell you the other reason. Do ye want to know?" (CS p. 607)I really don't understand this. Why tinker with a sentence like that, that was perfectly good and understandable in the original version?
CHAPTER 28
Ian's line about swimming has changed in CROSS STITCH:"I just thrash about, and gang in circles like a doodle-bug." (OUTLANDER p. 442)"I just thrash about, and gang in circles like a spider wi' four legs." (CS p. 612)The scene where Claire meets Grannie MacNab is quite different:"Mallow root--ah, that's good for cough. But ye dinna want to use that one, lassie." She poked at a small brownish tuber. "Looks like lily root, but it isna that." "What is it?" I asked. "Adder's-tongue. Eat that one, lassie, and ye'll be rollin' round the room wi' your heels behind yer head." She plucked the tuber from the basket and threw it into the pond with a splash. She pulled the basket onto her lap....[next bit is identical in both versions] "Ye ken betony from lamb's-quarters, at least."(OUTLANDER p. 447)
---------------------- "Coltsfoot root--ah, that's good for cough." She pulled the basket onto her lap....[next bit is identical in both versions] "Ye ken caraway from cowbane, at least."(CS p. 618)All the references to Jamie as "his lordship" (a perfectly proper and respectable way to speak of the laird, isn't it?) in this scene have been replaced by "Lallybroch": "I see Lallybroch didna wed ye for your face alone." (CS p. 618)"I see his lordship didna wed ye for your face alone." (OUTLANDER p. 448)And then Grannie MacNab says this to Claire:"you'll be swellin' like a pumpkin by Easter" (OUTLANDER p. 449)"you'll be swellin' like a ewe wi' triplets by Easter" (CS p. 620)I guess you could argue that pumpkins are too obviously North American in origin for someone like Grannie MacNab to be familiar with them?
_____________ Я Ольга, на ты Я помню каждый миг, каждую секунду..
Дата: Воскресенье, 13.03.2022, 23:29 | Сообщение # 125
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CHAPTER 31
From the scene where Murtagh and Claire are talking over breakfast at Lallybroch:"Did she think I might be a witch?" I asked curiously. (OUTLANDER p. 475) ----------------------
I took a deep breath, almost fearing to ask what must come next. I had tried as hard as I could to forget those few moments near the loch, but the memory of Geillis Duncan was impossible to escape. A murderous woman, and plainly mad, but courageous nonetheless, and linked to me in a way that could not be denied, no matter what I felt for Geillis herself. 'And...Mrs. Duncan?' I asked softly. Murtagh paused for a moment, long enough to scratch one stubbled cheek, then bent his attention to mopping up the last dribble of honey on his plate with a blunt forefinger. 'Imprisoned,' he said briefly. 'Till the babe's born.' 'Imprisoned? You don't mean...not the thieves' hole?' The thought of anyone spending weeks and months in frigid darkness, let alone a pregnant woman, was appalling. The ivory bracelets clicked softly together as I clasped my hands in my lap. Murtagh shook his head, still not looking at me. 'Nay. In the castle. Callum will keep her under ward, until the time to deliver her to the examiners.' He glanced at me then, with what might be a flicker of compassion. 'Dinna fret yourself; Mrs. Fitz will care for her--and the wean, when it's born. She'll find it a good home.' This thought was a comfort, if a small one. I would trust Mrs. Fitz with my own wean, if I had one. "Did she believe I was a witch--Mrs. Fitz, I mean?" I asked curiously. (CROSS STITCH pp. 655-56)Almost a whole page, that doesn't appear at all in OUTLANDER. Verrry interesting! But note that this version of events is contradicted by what we learn in VOYAGER, from Geillie herself, about how and where she spent the last part of her pregnancy.
Ronald MacNab arrives at Lallybroch riding a "garron" (CS p. 657), not a mule as in OUTLANDER.
This next quote makes me laugh, because I can't see the phrase "Lady of Lallybroch" without thinking of the fan site LOL."To be lady of a manor, or to sleep in the fields like a gypsy?" (OUTLANDER p. 480)"To be Lady of Lallybroch, or to sleep in the fields like a gypsy?" (CS p. 661) CHAPTER 34
Several references to Beauly have been removed or altered: "And the winter would set in shortly, making travel to Beauly impossible""No, most likely northeast, toward Beauly." (OUTLANDER p. 499)"And the winter would set in shortly, making travel impossible." "No, most likely northeast, towards Leoch." (CS p. 687)This next bit seems to be a follow-up to the scene I mentioned earlier, telling the story of what happened to Geillis Duncan:"Sent to the devil in a pllar of flame, under the branches of a rowan tree."'I thought she wasn't to...die until after the baby was born.' He glanced at me, still smiling, but I noticed the trickle of sweat making its way down the side of his neck. 'It's come. The wean was birthed afore time. Small, but a bonny boy nonetheless, strong and kicking, and yelling for the breast at once. He's his mother's eyes, the wee devil.'I thought at first this merciless recitation of detail was meant to impress me, but I was wrong. (CS p. 699)The part in red is missing from my OUTLANDER hardcover. (But say hello to Roger's ancestor, William Buccleigh MacKenzie )
CHAPTER 35
BJR's aide, Marley, is described as an "orderly" in OUTLANDER, but the word isn't used in CROSS STITCH as far as I can tell. For example: Jamie whirled away and feinted with the stool, forcing the orderly back toward the door. (OUTLANDER p. 530) Jamie whirled away and feinted with the stool, forcing the man back towards the door. (CS p. 730) CHAPTER 36
Spelling purists might disagree about this next one :"two large whiskys" (CS p. 754)"two large whiskies" (OUTLANDER p. 547)This one, I only noticed because the word "glowing" caught my eye, and I was surprised, when I went to check, that there was indeed a difference in the text, though it wasn't what I'd thought: "the lovely glowing Sheraton desk in the corner" (OUTLANDER p. 551)"the lovely glowing walnut desk in the corner" (CS p. 759)This might be British usage, but apparently a thumb doesn't count as a finger? As an American, this seems odd to me."All five fingers eventually lay straight as new pins" (OUTLANDER p. 554)"All five digits eventually lay straight as new pins" (CS p. 764) CHAPTER 37
Note the changed geographical reference:"insure our passage across the Channel." (OUTLANDER p. 564)"insure our passage across the North Sea." (CS p. 777)This last one is just strange, and misses the whole point of Claire's question, IMHO:"if he knows he's going to be seasick, why in God's name did he insist on a boat?" (OUTLANDER p. 568)"if he knows he's going to be seasick, why in God's name did he insist on travelling to France?" (CS p. 783) CHAPTER 38
A few very minor things in the Abbey section of the book:
"Matins" in OUTLANDER (p. 573) becomes "Prime" in CROSS STITCH (p. 790) "broth" (OUTLANDER) becomes "soup" (CS) in at least half a dozen places that I noticed (p. 795, for example)
CHAPTER 40
"Alex" (OUTLANDER) becomes "Alick" (CS) - this becomes very obvious toward the end of the book, because Jamie's uncle Alex the abbot, and BJR's brother Alex, and Alex MacGregor, are all called "Alick" in CROSS STITCH. ("Tell me that you love me, Alick", CS p. 845, for example.)
Here's one more changed geographical reference:"on this side of the sea" (CS p. 846) "on this side of the channel" (OUTLANDER p. 614) Conclusion
And so I've come to the end of the book at last. This has been a very interesting experience, reading CROSS STITCH, but I still say I like OUTLANDER better.
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